Expat Focus - Forums - Europe - Bulgaria

evelina118 · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: WHY

OK why is it that you english people have come over here. and you now have started to systematically take our system and our country apart. After all you have left your own country because its too much to deal with. its because of you that our cost of living has gone up. and we can no longer afford things. Things that you take for granted.

Jamie · Expat Focus Administrator Joined: Aug 06, 2000 Posts: 1649

evelina118,

Can you be more specific about what you're referring to when you talk about the system and the country being taken apart?

Note to all: I'm more than happy for this topic to remain here even though it's an issue which might raise strong feelings but please remember to be polite and respectful at all times. Remember, too, that English is not the OP's first language.

With that said, there's clearly an unfair generalisation in the original post in that it seems unlikely that all (English) incomers have a negative impact on Bulgarian society. evelina118, perhaps you'd like to share your thoughts and experiences which make you feel this way?

Jamie

Charlie · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Re: WHY

Hi Evelina

My boyfriend is Bulgarian, we moved here back in '05 from Greece where we met. He wanted us to make a new life in BG, he left Bulgaria for about 12 years.

The changes that have happened in the last 2 years are incredible, prices of most things have gone up. In fact only the other day Chech was telling me how much the price of an egg had gone up. That might seem like a pathetic example, but the little things add up. The cost of wood for building, building materials in general, food, drink, petrol, the list goes on. Luckily where we live, the prices have not risen as much as the more touristy destinations, although with tourists visiting from all over the world, you also have to look at employment. E.G we have a friend who, for the last 2 summers, has worked as a chef in a hotel on the coast. He struggles for work in his home town.

It's not just English that have come here, it's many foreigners that have moved here, but I don't think it's just that, BG joined the EU, that makes a difference in people's minds, both foreign and Bulgarian.

E.G. a friend of Chech's family is selling their house, the Bulgarian family renting wanted to buy it, the 3 people involved said yes to the price agreed but the old lady said NO. Her reasons being that after BG join the EU, the prices will go up and they can get more money! This won't happen in this particular case.

I'm not sure what has happened for you to be upset by this, I completely understand what you mean though, it's a topic me and Chech have discussed a few times, but it's not just about foreigners coming here and uping the prices, there other factors involved.

In another post you were asking if there were any English near you as you would love to practice your English. You're attitude towards English has changed a lot, so you have maybe experienced something which involves English??? We are not all the same.

Charlie

evelina118 · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: Re: WHY

I value you comments, but feel that this country has a bad time of trying to grow. And many people are finding just living very hard. Im just venting my feelings as many other peoplle might do. But what i do not like is when i read posts that always compare against other country's. Our country is behind in lots of ways, but its basically because of this that we have new people settling here. But with new people come change. Some good and some not so good. But the fact remains change is a way forward. But it would not be good if our country is like England where it is so expensive to do things. Also its is very hard now for Bulgarians to say go to the coast for a day because it is too much money to buy things. So dont you see that we are being pushed out. I think this is what many people are upset about. Maybe i was wrong to say english, of course its many country's that visit our country, But i do hear that the english people are investing all the time. But there is nothing i can do about this.

Charlie · Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Re: WHY

Me and Chech have been to the coast twice this year just for a couple of days each time. We couldn't wait to get back to our area as it was just too expensive. For what we paid for 2 people eating out on the coast would be the same for 4 - 6 people back in our town/village. The prices are incredible, but for tourists the price is cheap, but for us that live in BG away from the tourist areas, we find them to high. When I first came here I would compare prices to the UK, it didn't take me long to start comparing in leva from place to place, shop to shop, there is a huge differences in some places.

I've seen other posts, comparing UK to BG and moaning , the way I see it is if someone doesn't like Bulgaria, then leave. We have lots of Bulgarian friends and they all moan in some way about the way some things are in BG, but they have the right to, it's their country, but it winds me up when I see some foreigners wanting the life of Bulgaria but then wanting everything to be the way it is in their home country and again, this is not UK, USA, France, Spain, wherever, this is Bulgaria and it is slowly changing, like you say some not so good but there are many good things happening also.

I read a report about how young English are dominating the property market in Bulgaria as they can not afford the UK house prices. Again, me and Chech have talked about this and I said if things didn't change and calm down, it would get the same here, the young Bulgarian's would not be able to get on the property ladder as the prices were too high. We know many young Bulgarian's that are working abroad, Greece and the UK, as they can't get decent jobs here in BG. But, you could also say that the changes in BG are increasing job opportunities. No matter where you are, changes will be good and bad, we all hope more good than bad.

You could say that where English communities have grown, that it could look like the Bulgarian's are being pushed out or maybe it's that foreigners have found a particular area they like, or they prefer to have lot's of their own nationality around them as a security blanket, who knows.

No, there is nothing you can do, but who knows what's around the corner.

Fletch · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: Re: WHY

I have to agree that there has been many changes in the 12 years that we have lived in Bulgaria and not all for the better, when we moved to Bulgaria it was not because property was cheap as then there really was no retail market, it was for medical reasons of our youngest daughter, we have lived in the same village for 12 years and watched it change, Evelina even though you have sent me 2 very rude PMs I to dont want Bulgaria to be ruined, 12 years ago our village had very little but as the resort of Sunny Beach has grown this has given more people in our village work but along with that prices for property has increased in our area. Unfortunatly change has to happen whether we agree with it or not,

Charlie · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: Re: WHY

I have just read that taxi's in Sofia are set to go up 25%. Is it because of rising prices, the need for better wages,??? Could be a few things. It's naff, but you can't stop it.

The village we live in is one of the largest in the area. We are lucky that we still have enough children for the kindergarten and school, but some villages have hardly any youngsters. A lot of the young people have now moved to the cities or larger towns where the work is, or even moved out of the country altogether. We have noticed more young people back in the area, also more people from the cities buying property in the villages as a weekend retreat. It's nice to see, villages with life again. Some you go through and there's not a soul about. The more businesses, more employment, more money, prices go up, a vicious circle.

You've just got to take the bad with the good, it's hard I know.

Fletch,
Not sure what medical problems your daughter has, but I had a few when living in the UK. I had a few symptoms now and again in Greece but none since coming to BG. Asthma, eczema and hayfever, to name 3, no inhaler spray in over a year, a little heat rash in the summer but no eczema, Fantastic, clean mountain air, you can't beat it.

Fletch · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: WHY

Hi Charlie, we came for physio as Katie has cerebal palsy, she is now in college and doing really well.

funfunfun · Newbie Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 5 Location: bg

I'm afraid I have to agree with evelina118's first post and yet I am one of the refugees of western europe or the north atlantic archipelago she fears may ravage her country.

I've never been patriotic and fear people who are fiercely so. In my experience patriotism has always led to friction.

I have only been here a few months but the things she talks about are evident to even us newcomers.

Two films which I think helps people understand the really important issues a little clearer are Zeitgeist the Movie and Money as Debt.
These are both downloadable or viewable on the internet.

Evelina118, it is the fractional reserve central banking systems of the world which are to answer for most of our prolems.

The rest of us needs to understand this, but for the mostly great bulgarians i have met here, perhaps it is even moreso important; their economy has not created as much debt as the west...yet!
People in the uk mostly don't own their houses, the bankers do.

For me bulgaria offers a more sustinable lifestyle. The land is fertile and abundant and living closer to nature's bountiful, beautiful resources keeps us all healthier.

It is this that I believe our hosts need to appreciate more than anything else. You have a beautiful country and i feel both welcome and rescued - at least for the time being.

Evelina is right to be passionate. In the time that i lived in France I saw young people forced out of the property market by brits raising prices. Of course the French vendors profited from this but that didn't stop it from happening.

Now the young people are forced to rent as is the case in the uk.
You are lucky in ways you cannot see my bg friends, but this time is running out.

Friction is something that can spiral, especially if it is fueled by mass media. It is my belief that we can be honest about situations and be positive and solution orientated at the same time.

So my two tier temporary solution is as follows:
1. Place heavy governmental property taxes for aliens and ensure that the payment of these taxes is in the currency of litter bins - this should stem the tide a little depending on how heavy the taxes are.
2. Both parties of the sale be obliged to take part in rubbish bin site construction as a combined community building and environmental awareness event. This would tidy the place up a bit. I believe this will make everyone smile a little bit more.

This is because if foreigners want to live in a new country they need to contribute in ways other than financial.
Mixed nationality events help to allay fears and misconceptions and people to take a step forward in friendship together.

OK that's me.

PS
Bigboy don't shoot at me this time,
you put me off for quite a while
FYI Smile

jerbil · Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:08 am Post subject: Re: WHY

funfunfun, although I agree, to a great extent, with the implicit and explicit sentiments in your response, I am always wary of suggestions from people who have made it ("I am one of the refugees of western europe or the north atlantic archipelago she fears may ravage her country"), in fact who have done anything, and who now propose regulations that inhibit others from doing the same, however tongue in cheek.

Having travelled extensively in the world and having lived outside of the UK for nearly half my life, I consider myself to be a world citizen (like funfunfun, "I've never been patriotic and fear people who are fiercely so"). Basically, I feel that we should be able to live anywhere we want in the world, within environmental reason, and that the sooner all barriers are removed, in that regard, the better.

The EU has been a godsend with regard to freedom of movement and, now that Bulgaria has joined (and, presumably, they have done that for the advantages that will hopefully bring to the Bulgarians) I intend to use my prerogative and take advantage of it to extend my life horizons.

With all due respect, evelina118, it is silly to think that the insignificant number of people from outside BG that have gone there within the last few years could "systematically take our system and our country apart" to any great effect, at least, without the help of the aboriginals.

You have a lovely country and the vast majority of people that I have met have been charming and friendly. I can understand that it may appear that people are coming from outside to take advantage of the benefits that you have been lucky enough to experience for so long but, having said that, it works both ways as I am now facing the prospect of being embroiled in litigation with some of your fellow citizens so, perhaps you can understand that some of us may feel that we are being taken advantage of too.

It is a moot point whether my partner and I moving to BG is going to help the country or not but, on the face of it, retiring there with no income apart from savings, so that, effectively, for the sake of providing a roof over our heads, you will eventually be receiving all those monies, I'm not sure who gets the best deal (although, I'm not complaining).