The following transcript was generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Carlie: Hey there. It’s Carlie, your host of the Expat Focus podcast. Are you looking for trusted experts to support your move abroad? We have some recommendations for you, from international health insurance to cross-border financial planning and international moving companies. Just head to expatfocus.com. Hit the services tab at the top to find out more.
What does moving to Spain really look like for a third country national land? How do you know if it’s right for you? Joining me in this episode is James Blick, the founder of Spain Revealed, and we cover lifestyle differences in different parts of the country, popular visas and requirements, and why your vision for your life in Spain matters more than the nitty gritty logistics at the start of your planning.
James, it’s great to have you on the show, and I’m so curious, because we’re neighbors now.
James: Well, you’re an Aussie, I’m a Kiwi, and you’re in France and I’m in Spain, so in more ways than one.
Carlie: Yeah, definitely. How did you come to be living in Spain?
James: So I’ve been in Madrid for 14 years now. Came here in 2011. I actually moved to France when I was in about 2005, 2006. Teach English, just wanted to have an adventure in Europe and. Probably deep down was thinking of, I’d have some French cinematic romance or something like that. And I did have a romance, but I met a Spanish woman, in France, and she became, well, she’s now my wife, Yolanda, and so she’s from Madrid.
And so we lived in France for about a year. Spoke French to each other for the first year, which her English wasn’t super confident and my Spanish was non-existent, so. Then after that, a few years later, moved to Spain after a few years in New Zealand trying that out, but just wanted to live in Europe. I just loved Europe, so it made sense to come back to Spain. I fell in love with her and I fell in love with her country.
And that’s, and that’s history. And now I’ve wondered where home is That’s it.
Carlie: Yes.
James: I don’t know. New Zealand’s in my blood, but I almost feel like Spain is too this is home.
Carlie: And how did you come to, decide to found Spain revealed?
James: Well, I used to, well, I used to own a company, which is a which is still around a food tour company called Devour Tours, which I co-founded in 2013. I fell in love with Spain and with Madrid. Food, the tapas bars wanted to share all of that. And so along with a friend, we founded this company where we effectively led food tours and showed people all the best places to eat in Madrid. That grew and grew and grew some just pre pandemic we had.
We were offering tours all over. All over Europe. Had a big team. But as that grew, I stopped off, I stopped guiding tours, and started running the company and I missed guiding tours. So I started a YouTube channel in about 2013 or so called Spain Revealed, which was just my way of just sharing really Spain at that point. And really started to dedicate more time to that around the, just before the pandemic.
And then, the pandemic happened and I noticed a lot of people in the audience. Obviously tourism was was not happening at that time. I noticed a lot of people in my audience were using, were watching the videos for inspiration, and planning to move to Spain, and I thought I have a law degree. I’ve, I love the analytical side, but I also love teaching. And I thought, well, this is really interesting. I would love to help people on this journey.
So pivoted more away from the tourism into the relocation aspect, in about 2020 and really kept doing the YouTube channel, but just started introducing topics of what it means to move here, how you do it. And, and now I run a. A, a course called The Move to Spain Masterclass, which is a full offer twice a year, is helps people really understand and in big, in real detail how to make a move like this without costly mistakes and things like that.
So yeah, it’s, I love it because I say it combines my love of Spain teaching my sort of. Lawyery analytical side, I can do a bit of everything with it.
Carlie: And James, we’re speaking in 2025. What is the top, nationality, I guess, interested in moving to Spain? Where are people coming from the most at the moment?
James: Well my audience is different. From if you look at Spain generally in terms of where are where are immigrants coming from, where are people moving from? I mean the biggest areas are, parts of Europe, north Africa are the most common ones, but my audience specifically is North Americans. So, it’s always been North Americans who watched, the YouTube channel, mainly from the US and also Canada. There’s also Aussies and Kiwis and Brits.
And so the people that I really help are. By and large, it’s, it’s, I find the people that gravitate are from North America and they’re not, they’re not the biggest chunk of people moving to Spain, but there is, more of them than there used to be because there’s more visa options now with the digital nomad visa. And also with all the the politics going on in the US there’s a lot of people looking for somewhere else to somewhere else to live.
And I think cost of living is a big one. Ever since I’ve been helping people move. Particularly from the US I’ve had a lot of people who have like said, look, we could retire in the States, but we’ll have to work until we’re 70. And in Spain I can retire at 50, and have a good life. And so it’s really a lot of different reasons that Americans are looking to move to a lot of places actually at the moment. So for a variety of reasons.
Carlie: Retiring at 50.
James: We can only dream.
Carlie: Okay. Well, this leads me to my next question, which is, is that real? Because I thought even in France, the retirement age is higher now. And so what element do you think of Spain is most misunderstood by foreigners?
James: Well it’s funny, I was just looking at this, I shouldn’t go onto TikTok or Instagram as much as I should, but I was looking at this, this post that had gone viral of this young guy who was here and he was like Spaniards never seem to work. They’re always, Europeans and Spaniards are always on holiday. And I think there’s a misunderstanding about what life is like here.
Look, if you’re coming to retire, you’re not gonna be hustling and working right? But also to think that you’re gonna come to a country where everyone’s just having a siesta all the time and always on holiday and things like that, it’s maybe compared to the US. Where it’s almost become you have to grind to survive. Spain is like that and I know fr France is like Spain a little bit that we appreciate.
Carlie: I wish we had siestas.
James: Yeah, that’s true. But the Siesta thing, it’s a lot of people, most people can’t take a siesta, they. Take one on a holiday if they can. So I think there’s a misunderstanding about just what kind of, o of the complexities of the culture People work hard. There’s people who are who are retired and are enjoying their life.
And, and I think that can sometimes lead through to a misunderstanding about what someone’s life will be like when they move to Spain. People are often. You go on holiday to a place and you’re oh, I would love to live there. Because I can be PAA by the sea and tappas and things like that. And I always say to people, you gotta get your vision clear. Like what’s a boring rainy Tuesday afternoon gonna look like in your life?
And you have to build to that. So I think sometimes the misunderstandings of Spain, you see Spaniards in the bars and you think they’re all in the bars all the time. You think that’s gonna be your life? And it’s well no, people lead real lives here and you will need to lead a real life too. It doesn’t mean you can’t have paella by the sea. Yes, you can, but maybe not every day for lunch
Carlie: In your regular, working week, how much are you eating paella by the sea?
James: Well, I’m in Madrid, so very little, unfortunately. So I think look, this is a country where it is true that it’s, it’s very easy. To live a work life balance. Right. One, one thing I’ve found I’m, I’m a workaholic. Like that is my tendency that I have to push back against. Yep, yep. Takes one to no one.
James: And if I was living in San Francisco, New York, or maybe even Auckland in New Zealand, if people around me are working really hard. It’s oh, I gotta keep going. But, but it’s, the Spanish culture, enable, it doesn’t enable that worst instinct in me. And it allows me, actually, because the people around me often are taking a moment to take a holiday. It’s it gives me permission actually to lean into that.
And look, this means, obviously if you’re coming here to work as a remote worker, as a digital nomad, that’s important. I think you can have a lifestyle balance, if you’re coming here as a retiree, I think it’s also, important because you have a culture around you where it’s not just. People rushing around, like people are, people have time to engage and to connect and to have a chat.
So I think that that’s something I really love about living here. But I again, I’my whole thing is I it’s it’s, it’s cheesy, but it’s like like hashtag real talk. I it just annoys me when people oversimplify things because when you are building a li are gonna build a life in a place. If you go with a very simplistic idea, you might be disappointed about the life you build.
And so I really want people to have a clear vision and really to build towards that vision and to be specific. And so, and to understand how a, the country really is. It’s wonderful, but it’s, it’s, it’s complex. It’s real. So then you can build a real life in the place.
Carlie: Well then let’s get into some of that real talk. When it comes to the differences between different parts of Spain, we’ve already established that you are not eating by PE by the Sea in Madrid. Obviously for geographical reasons.
James: Geographical reasons, and having a 4-year-old.
Carlie: But so, what distinguishes somewhere like Madrid to, I mean, I went to, Mayorca for Christmas. The other year. I wanted the sunniest place in Europe That I could get. And, and that was one of the top destinations and it was amazing. But I’m guessing, living in Majorca is very different to living in another part of Spain.
James: 100%. And I would love to be able to speak from real world experience of living in Majorca. I’m sure it would be amazing, but yeah, I what I see and it’s true speaking about location. Location is really one of those decisions that takes people the longest.
And, and so it should, like sometimes a place just clicks And but I think it’s very connected to, I don’t like using the word success of a move, but people’s happiness when they arrive in a place. When even when you move neighborhoods in your own city, it’s or into a new home to a new apartment. It’s like if it clicks and everything around it clicks. And so I really encourage people to spend time on that decision. Both, online research.
Intentional scouting trips, because Spain is so varied it’s geographically varied. Varied. The language changes. So in Myorca there is a language apart from Spanish Whereas in Madrid, it’s Spanish in parts of northern Spain say the bus country, there’s another language during Catalonia.
And in southern Spain, some parts, there’s, there’s, there’s what somebody might say is a really thick accent that’s, that people can sometimes if you’re coming to Spain and you’re, you are learning Spanish can be a challenge to understand it first. So the variety is key. And I think Majorca versus Madrid, obviously Madrid is for people who are looking for that urban environment.
They wanna be able to go to the opera, they want to be, that is important. They wanna be able to jump on a plane to anywhere in Europe. Whereas my Tika is for those people who wanna disconnect, they wanna be able to walk to the sea and look, in a way, these conversations are challenging because I would love to be able to be able to jump on a plane and walk to the sea, but in the end, what I’ve found is that.
Even in a big country, maybe like France as well, but certainly in Spain when you come at it with fresh eyes and be there must be so many different places I could live. And there are. But once you narrow down your vision you might be picking between two or three places, that fit that vision. Or you might have competing visions. You’re not sure if you want the big city or the walk to the beach and you need to really get that clear.
Carlie: I think it’s also about, what those different cities and villages are like at different times of year. Too. I know here in Strasburg, the city and summer is completely different vibe compared to, autumn, compared to mm-hmm. Christmas market season compared to the dull months? Between January and April. And, and I’m guessing may Yorker and winter when I went was quite pleasant and not crowded and quite enjoyable. But I imagine it’s very different in peak season.
James: Yeah, I think that’s … I’m glad you said that because actually my wife and I were looking at moving to a new neighborhood in Madrid and we’re looking at different neighborhoods and there was one neighborhood we visited. In March. And it was oh, not feeling it. Then we went the other day and it was I’m feeling it. What’s the difference? Well, okay, one was quieter, but I I it’s not like I’m looking for noise.
One had a, one was warmer where they had more energy, but I think visiting places, ideally at different times of the year to see that variety or. Even thinking about when is the worst time I could visit. If, if I don’t want rain, then I’m gonna visit Northern Spain, which is very green. Looks like New Zealand, it looks the uk and it rains a lot more there. I’m gonna visit in January. Just see how it feels if it, if I could really survive that.
But then again, you don’t wanna get just like test a place and just stress test it, that same thing. So yeah, go in July if you can often think I see people who do quite a few scouting trips if they have the finances and the time as they lead up. And I think that can be a great idea if you have the opportunity to do that and really visit moments.
And, and the other thing I would just say also, if somebody’s looking at scouting, say Spain or moving anywhere. Make it a road trip. It’s very easy. Often in Europe with these fast trains. It’s like I’m in, I’m checking out Madrid, then I’m fast training to Valencia, then I’m, but if you’re in a road trip, if you’re in a car, you can really see how the landscape changes.
You can see, you can stop off in little towns and start to get a more of a sense of the texture of a place. And I think it’s a much more effective way, to visit a place and explore it really.
Carlie: And sometimes it is those places in between that give you the best insight into a region too. Totally.
James: Yeah, and you think you’re wanting to live in Valencia and then 30 minutes out in the car you drive through this town, or 20 minutes out, you drive through what might be an outlying residential area. Wow, actually I didn’t think that this was here. This would be amazing. And so I think that can be, can really help, with exploring a location.
Carlie: So for someone who has decided Spain is the place to move? Is this, is this the area to start with? Like where in Spain or there, is there an el another element you should get in order first before you start looking at locations?
James: I think, I think there’s three things that you have to hold a little bit, spinning plates at the same time. And I think the three keys are money. Location and immigration route.? And actually though what, there’s actually one before that and I referred to it earlier that I don’t wanna make sure I forget. And that is the vision, like that is spending time getting really specific on what you want your life to look like.
The, and how does that sit with other people you’re moving with? Are there any conflicts or compromises, that are needed? And so once you have a clear vision of what life looks in Spain, then you have to test it against the reality. And I think through that location finances and immigration, so. Immigration is is there an immigration route that will deliver you that vision for your life?
A a silly example is that I see people who are like partially retired. I still wanna dabble, I wanna do my art and sell it on Etsy. But I’m not gonna earn much money. It’s actually quite challenging to find a visa for that. For Spain right now, you’re either non lucrative visa where you’re retired and you’re not allowed to earn money. Or at least declare it, obviously.
But I’m always saying to people, if you’re gonna come here, then I think the ethical thing to do is to abide by the rules that you’re, that you’re signing up for. And so. You could come on a non lucrative visa, but then you can’t work and you should abide by that. And so, that’s the deal you’ve got with Spain or the, no, the digital nomad visa where you have to have an income threshold and overseas clients, like if you’re in the middle.
So is there an immigration route that enables you to, kind of, has the features for the life? You wanna, you wanna live investigating that and that ’cause you’ve done your vision. And then two. Is there a location or what are the different locations? So I think you’re looking at that online research. And then three is the financial side. And I think this is a big one. What’s, what’s it gonna cost?
Different parts of Spain cost different amounts of money, to live housing. You can, you can see housing on the website, eta, which is the main. Rental and buying site, and you can see what things cost. So that’s pretty good. But what are people spending? This is something I spend time in the masterclass really building. I help people build out a budget, using a tool I built with an economist.
And so with those three plates spinning, I think then you can get a start to sense of what is realistic. The other financial thing I would say is that particularly with retire people coming at retirement age, you’re coming with your nest egg. Particularly if you’re coming from the us that can be complex to figure out.
You wanna understand the tax implications because you’ve got this finite, I mean okay, you’re earning interest and things like that, but you’ve on your investments, but you’ve got this finite, pretty finite amount of money. You’re not working to keep building, to keep growing that part. And so understanding the tax implications can take time.
So a year before you move, you wanna be looking at that stuff, meeting with a tax expert, in a Zoom meeting with a tax expert in Spain, looking at what the implications are for your Roth IRA or your 401k and whether you need to transfer money to Spain or whether you leave it in the us and regardless of where you’re moving forward, whether it’s the UK as well, or Canada.
So I think money, location, immigration path, those are the three that I say and they, that start with your vision and sort of. Let those things feed up to that and make sure they’re in place. And then look, the other things are not more minor, but they’re usually okay. Healthcare. Are you gonna rent or buy or rent And then buy, like these can go either way.
Carlie: Now we did speak to a guest on this show about moving to Spain on a additional nomad visa, but I’m conscious it was. About 12 months ago, and there has been a recent change. Could we touch quickly on what that change is and how it affects people who might be looking at the digital nomad visa?
James: Yeah, so the digital nomad visa is now three years old, approximately. There has been, and what happens often when on the new law like this comes out in Spain, it’s announced it comes out and then. It feels like the immigration department kinda learns on the fly a little bit and starts plugging gaps evolving. The, the unwritten rules that you need to abide by when you apply.
And so there’s always like little tweaks happening that aren’t actually listed on the page. But if you see people if you’re an immigration lawyer, you’re seeing how these little requirements are changing. One big change. I’m not sure if this is the one you’re referring to, but particularly is that previously it wasn’t possible for, US employees to move to Spain under the digital Nomad Visa as remote workers. You had to be a freelancer.
You had to be a 10 99 freelancer, but now you can be a W2 employee. The issue was getting a specific, document from the US Social Security Administration that was. People weren’t able to get. Now they are able to get it. And so now if you are working for, I don’t know, you’re a coder in, in the US and you wanna, and you’re able to work remote, previously you had to go freelance, for your employer or for multiple clients.
Now you can actually remain an employee and apply to live in Spain under the digital nomad visa. And that visa you can actually apply for. In Spain as well. That’s
Carlie: Really good.
James: Yeah. It, it is. And this is a big change. ’cause this was a really real sticking point for many people from the US who wanted to move here, and set up a life. It was well, I could go freelance, but that feels complicated, or my employer won’t let me. Or and being freelance for one employer can actually be a little bit of a legal gray area.
Carlie: Mm-hmm. Same in France. You’re not really supposed to do that. So there was that as well. I think they call it hidden employment.
James: Yeah. Here, that’s called, it’s called a false freelancer. Which is really more of a a labor protection rule. Right? Because then your employer’s not paying all your social welfare, social social charges. Things exactly. So that issue has been removed, which is great for us employees who can work remote here.
Carlie: Although for a US employee, you still crucially need your employer to agree That you can work for them from states. Yeah, exactly.
James: Yeah. You need to, you need to. You need to tell them you can get the
Carlie: Boss on board.
James: Yeah. I mean, look, I’ve, it’s incredible how people do this. I met a guy once who was running a shop in a small town in Spain, and he was oh, I’ve just gotta go off to a meeting. And he, his employer still thought he was in the uk and so he, but he’d moved to Spain to sit up like a hobby shop. And he’d been working for this employer. I mean, I don’t know what job he had, but he’d been working with this employer for a few years. That’s amazing.
An employer didn’t realize where he was based. So that feels very stressful to me.
Carlie: Its very stressful. Be okay, I need to turn my camera on when I’m in a neutral environment, I turn on.
James: Turn it off quickly. Where are you?
Carlie: You did mention a property website, and I’m curious because this was a big culture shock for me when I moved to France. Do people in Spain advertise their houses privately on like Facebook marketplace, like they do here in France?
James: Not really, no. No. That’s interesting. These are in, these are the interesting things that when you. Teach something and it and you live it. You’re well, you don’t realize what is and isn’t obvious. Right. You, it can be easy to forget that, but nobody advertises their place on Facebook. I don’t even think Facebook marketplace is really a thing here in Spain. Like I’ve never seen anybody selling anything on it. So, no.
That’s interesting that that’s in France now. Really. There was a bunch of property websites, and it used to be that things were less online. So you would walk around the neighborhood and see for sale signs and that was Indicat that was another way to look. But what?
These days, everything is on, ideally pretty much like it’s like I in all the places we’ve rented and in this apartment that we bought that I’m standing in, that’s the only place we searched really. Now it doesn’t mean that.
There might be if you have, say a property buyer working for you, a real estate agent who’s working for you, that they’re like hustling around like the edges and their contacts and something’s about to come on the market and that stuff. But that’s obviously something that’s a little harder to access unless you’re actually working with a professional.
Carlie: So we just talked about the digital nomad visa. I am assuming that re visas geared towards retirees are very popular too. Can we quickly touch on what options there are for people who are looking to Spain as their retirement destination?
James: Yeah, there used to be two really, and I’m assuming for the moment that. This is for people who are not from the eu, or don’t have a spouse from the EU because in that case there’s an EU route, which is much much like in Spain, which is much simpler. But if you’re from a third country, like the US or Canada or New Zealand, Australia or the uk, you need to, used to be that you could have the non lucrative visa or there was the golden visa.
And the golden visa was where you spent 500,000 Euros on a property and you got, and you got residency. The Golden Visa’s disappeared. Right? It’s been taken away earlier this year, so no longer exists in Spain. So now really the main one, or the one that that remains, is the non lucrative visa, which. Is is pretty. It’s, it’s not a difficult visa to access as long as you have the funds.
And for most people looking, say coming from the countries I’ve mentioned to retire or live in their retirement. In, in Europe generally they have these funds that they have they’re around 30 odd thousand euros for one person than more for two people per year that they can show. And that can be passive income pension, coming in monthly or rental income, or it can be just savings that you have. So, the non lucrative visa is really the key one.
And I always think of visa routes as they’ll always have a bunch of different requirements. You gotta show criminal background check, you gotta show, you gotta have health insurance. But there’s usually kinda one or two key requirements that the Visa really builds around.
If the digital nomad visa is about showing that you are earning a certain amount of money, in your remote role, then the non lucrative, as I say, is about saying that you have these savings or this passive income, so you’re not gonna be a burden on the state effectively. And that you, that’s one that you can’t apply for in Spain. You have to apply via your consulate back home. So you figure out the requirements. Which you can do it yourself.
I always say though, if you fit into one of three categories, which is you hate paperwork, you don’t have much time, or you have a difficult case, then it can pay to work with someone.
Carlie: They, they should just call you.
James: They should call me. I don’t do visa applications myself, so I can teach you all about all the options and everything, but yeah, if you wanna I will make you much more prepared if you wanna do it yourself, obviously. But still a lot of people that go through my course then decide to work with an immigration consultant because in the end, they don’t wanna do the actual, the actual application themselves. They hate paperwork.
It just feels like it’s gonna and they wanna lower the risk. Risk of. Spanish bureaucracy is probably like French bureaucracy. I mean, I know I lived there for a year. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a real pain. It was enough.
Carlie: One year would be be enough.
James: Yeah. And so you don’t wanna in a new country, you don’t wanna fall foul of some unwritten rule that
Carlie: No, absolutely.
James: Yeah.
Carlie: And so you did mention with the non lucrative visa, you need to not be a burden on the state. Would that also apply with regard to health insurance? Would you have access to the local healthcare system or would you need to come with a health insurance plan?
James: So part of your visa application for the non lucrative visa is that you have to have a year’s. The, the first visa or the first residency period is one year, and then you renew it for further periods. So you have to show, you have healthcare for that first year. And when you renew for, you have ongoing, private healthcare, private health insurance, which is not depending on where you’re moving from, say from the US for example.
Compared to what you’re paying back there for healthcare this private health insurance is not expensive, and you get really good quality care. You can, after one year, of residents, you can. Pay into the public system and access the public system, which, can sometimes be actually a similar cost to the private.
And most people stay with the private because it’s just a bit more user friendly if you’re not from Spain and you’re more likely to get English speaking doctors and they’re speaking
Carlie: Phone line and referrals and yeah.
James: All that stuff. It, where it does come in handy is that it is, if you are. Moving to Spain and you have a preexisting condition that maybe you’ve had to play down a little bit, we’ll say, in order to get that private health insurance and pay out of pocket for the first year, then it’s an incentive to get on the public system as soon as possible because the public system accepts preexisting conditions.
Carlie: Right. So that makes sense.
James: Yeah.
Carlie: James, what in your experience, typically goes wrong for foreigners in their move planning?
James: Hmm. I there’s, as Spain has become more popular for people to move to, there’s this spate of headlines that I see on American and particularly British, newspapers that sort of, I like failed move, headlines and
Carlie: Why I left Spain after six months.
James: American woman is disillusioned after. And look a lot of it wasn’t
Carlie: The dream I thought it would be.
James: And, and look, a lot of it is, is kind of, the headline overplays the reality of how dramatic the thing is they, one was a woman I moved to Valencia. My life has gotten better, but it’s not as entrepreneurial as I thought. Well okay. So it’s not Silicon Valley. So I think when it comes down to it’s really, it’s really simple where it goes wrong. It’s, it’s in the vision.
People have for their life and building a realistic vision of what life will look really sitting down and I give people in my masterclass a multi-page vision checklist to go really? So they can a workbook, they can go deep and figure out what their vision is gonna look like. What does that rainy Tuesday afternoon, what are they doing?
What are they doing for the rest of their life, potentially so you can build this idea of this life you want, and then testing it against the reality is that vision possible? Or am I looking to live in Madrid and walk to the beach? Right. In a an extreme case I’ve got two things that can’t go together.
That’s where I find people, maybe it’s because they rush the move or they and so they move to the wrong a location that’s just not right for them. Well, they just had different expectations and I think there might be another thing around this is more probably what these articles too, is thinking that. Somehow Spain has to adapt for them or something like that. That I moved to Spain and I can’t, can’t handle these eating times.
It’s well they make they might seem crazy to you, but they’re not, they’re not crazy. They, they make sense within this culture. Whether you like them or not is a different thing. And it’s fine for you to say you don’t like them You, you, once you belong here, but. Don’t paint them as if it’s like we’re all nuts or something. ’cause we’re having dinner at nine o’clock.
It grows out of those things grow out of necessity and about the reality of culture. So I think people don’t build a clear vision. They get specific enough and then once they have that, they don’they don’t do their research really just to make sure that that vision is possible or adjust it to something that is possible.
Carlie: I don’t know if you saw the same viral video that I saw, but it was about a woman, making the culture point in the context of going into a lingerie in France and asking for her Hamm and cheese baguette to be toasted.
James: Oh, wow.
Carlie: And the server saying, no.
James: Yeah.
Carlie: And, and she said, but why? And the server said, because that’s not how it’s meant to be eaten. And she’s but you have the panini right next to it and you’ll toast the panini. And she’s sure. She’s so why can’t you just toast the ham and cheese baguette? It’s my preference. And the server’s I’m not doing it for you.
James: No, I didn’t see that. But it is interesting, right, because on the one hand. That’s culture. That’s culture. And so it’s, it’s having a, it’s understanding that you’re a guest, at least at the beginning. And then look, I don’t know, five years down the line, open a toasted baguette, ham and cheese thing, whatever. Like we can’t also live, make it enough
Carlie: Tea.
James: Yeah. We can’t live in this thing where we’re then not allowed to comment, but take it slow. Right.? And, and open your toasted. Bigge thing down the line. Right. Once you understand more clearly about why that is yeah, it’s an interesting one because I think we, on the one hand, so I recently, in one of my last videos, and I made a comment where, I was served a, like a pastry that was local to the area.
And I made this silly irreverent comment that was ah, something like many spana sweets. It’s, it’s, it’s sugary dry and something whatever it was. Right? And I say that from someone who’s lived here for 14 years who will soon be a citizen who has a child growing up here and a life here and a marriage here.
And I feel comfortable making tongue in cheek jokes, but someone took really offense in the YouTube comments Hey, you say that about my country. And it’s look. I have shown a lot of respect for this country, and I continue to, and I have a lot of reverence for it, but I also, I belong here now. This is my country too.
Carlie: And you don’t have to like all the sweets.
James: And you, and you don’t have to like not be able to comment anything and so, but you have to take it slow. I wouldn’t you gotta, you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta make it. And in the comment said in my country, and I responded well in our country. This is what I’m, I’m gonna make a joke. And so, but I feel comfortable saying that now after having been here for a long time.
And, and I’ve traveled this country a lot and I’ve eaten the food all around and everything like that. So I think you have to find a balance between. Between reverence but also not getting too, like you can’t speak right. Because of the altar of culture. Right. But it, but it’s also, you gotta put your, put in your Jews before you can start to ask for the toasted baguette. Right.
Carlie: And sometimes you just have to accept that if you go to a, they’re not going, speaking as a Melbourne coffee snob. They’re not going to have a proper barista coffee machine. It’s gonna be a push button. Something cut above a nest cafe. Thing you’d find at home and. Maybe you’re better off just not buying your coffee from there or Yeah, buying your baguette and toasting it at home.
James: No, you’re a hundred percent right. I mean because also one of the things we lose is culture is homogenized. I remember when I moved to Madrid, people didn’t, you couldn’t get takeaway coffee. It wasn’t a thing. I remember seeing somebody get a takeaway coffee from a place, and they were walking along and they had like the bar.
Well, the bar had given them a plastic beer glass with a mouth, which the name of the beer and had tinfoil like on top of it. And because there was no takeaway coffee cups. Now obviously that’s more common, but there’s, even there is really good coffee in Spain. Now, the more traditional coffee has this process that can make it taste a little bitter. And there’s a part, and I always used to be I made a video about that. It was oh man, this.
Coffee tastes so bitter and, and it went viral. But now I miss that a little bit ’cause now all the coffee’s getting too good. So
Carlie: Getting too bougie. Yeah.
James: Exactly.
Carlie: Well we do have good barista coffee in Strasburg now, and there was one place where you could bring your, like. Reusable cup. And they would fill it up for you and you get 50 Euro cent discount. Oh.
James: That’s good.
Carlie: But I have to accept that I can’t bring my KE cup into any coffee shop and expect them to use that instead of giving me a paper cup.
James: Yeah, No, it’s true. Look, I mean there’s a tension between how things are and baby steps? Exactly. And how things evolve and I guess that’s just the reality, and that’s okay.
Carlie: James, in preparing for this interview, I received a note from you, which was that there is a simple question to ask yourself when it comes to planning a move to Spain, and that is what is my rhythm?
James: Hmm?
Carlie: Why is that an essential, A simple but essential question.
James: Because I think it’s a, it’s, it’s a good question because, well, there’s, I guess there’s two parts to it is what are the, what is the rhythm I have now and what is the rhythm I want? And, and where do I find that? And in, if we think about a life. When you move to a place, often why we’re moving is we’re looking for just a life that moves and has a different rhythm from what we currently have.
I see that for people moving to Spain, they’re looking to slow down. Had a guy in one of my courses who showed me his before and after, blood pressure levels before the move and after the move, and so his rhythm had really had really slowed down. And so I think when you want to think about what your rhythm is, it’s part of that vision. It’s, it’s kinda like an overarching, like what does life look like? How does it move?
Like what are you doing in the mornings? Is it some people wanna move to Madrid and have that energetic vibe and be out and doing things and trying new restaurants. And some people wanna live in a place where they walk into the bar and everybody knows their name? And so it’s a way of. It’s an brella way to really think about how your life is and what kinda life you want and where you’re gonna find that in Spain.
Because again, there are so many different rhythms, in this country. There are small towns, there are busy cities, there’s everything in between. And I’ve seen people. I met a woman once who had moved and in her move she had moved to a small town in northern Spain. ’cause that’s what she thought she wanted. But then she realized it was really hard. Her Spanish wasn’t great yet. It was really hard to meet people.
So it’s almost like that rhythm, that small town vibe. Although that looked great, it just was not accessible for her yet. It was maybe down the line. And I think that’s something else with a move to think about it in phases. It’s okay a life evolves I dunno if you’ve always lived in the same city in France, but it. People move. Right?
And so what’s right for I mean a guy, I inter, I sort of, I I in my course I have, I do interviews with alumni who have made the move. And I was talking to one guy, Preston, and he was well, he moved on his own and he chose Madrid as his first place. Now will he always be a Madrid? Maybe. But he was I’m not gonna move to maybe that small town that I’m, that I like the idea of, ’cause I know I need to build community first, so I’m moving to Madrid.
If that’s the rhythm I need, that’s the life I need. I can build my life. And then the next stage, maybe five, 10 years, maybe another place. And I think it’s okay to have that in your mind. Not to be, not be too black and white about it’s gonna be forever. I gotta pick a location and never move.
Carlie: Yeah, well, I moved from London to Strasburg to join my now husband because that’s just where he happened to live. Yeah, and I’ve spoken about this with another recent podcast guest that a lot of people put less thought into like. Where they’re going to move in the world, then the color of their next couch. Thing. And I think I’m really guilty of that. I think I’m very lucky that I landed in a small but dynamic city. There’s a lot going on.
And I have a job that means I can leave regularly and travel and get my fix of big cities. ’cause like I from Melbourne, I lived in London. I love a big bustling city. That you make a really good point about. Does where you’re moving to or where you’re thinking of moving to match your rhythm. And if I’m very honest, Strasberg maybe doesn’t match my, My rhythm. But I found workarounds that mean I’m happy here for now.
And, and that’s a big, that’s a really important point you make is that it’s possibly not your forever a city. No. And to think about that.
James: And to feel empowered that you might be able to make a change. And the fact that you moved where your husband is and maybe it’s, it’s not a perfect match. It’s also the reality of a life and a move.
There’s gonna be some things that look, part of me, one side of my brain wants to live in a small village in the mountains, and one side wants to live in a busy city, and I can’t. I mean, we’re all a bit like that.
Carlie: Oh, I am totally. I want lots going on. Bustling, busy city, lots of things to do, but I also want to have my regular places where people know me.
James: Yeah exactly. So that, so then it becomes because Madrid, for example, is a city like that, then it becomes well, which neighborhood is gonna give you that experience in Madrid, where it’s because the neighborhoods are then very different. And Madrid is a city of kinda little villages in a way. So, which is the little village within the city that feels right for you. Yeah, I think that’s important as well.
Carlie: This last one is a bit of a leading question, and we did touch on it earlier, but what is, in your opinion, the best way, to ensure that Spain aligns with your values and what you’re really looking for?
James: I think look past those. Click Beatty headlines. Look past the TikTok from the guy who’s been here for five minutes and is making statements about what Spain is like and really. Look to learn from your own experience of traveling here. Look to learn from people who are providing advice about their own experience. And without an agenda or a specific agenda of you’ve gotta live this way, you’ve gotta live that way.
Just connect with sensible people. I think community. I mean, as you’ll know, someone who moved to a new city and a new country it takes a while to build community. But I think the community building phase begins actually before your move to have a community of fellow people who are moving with you as well and who are. Maybe five steps ahead of you, or two, three years ahead of you, I think is really important.
And that it should be a kind and accepting community. I’m so sick of the Facebook groups where people ask honest questions and other people put like the laughing, they got shot down. There’s just so much of that that goes on and I feel really sorry for people ’cause it’s not right.
Carlie: You all have to start somewhere. You were that person 14 years ago. I was that person 12 years ago. Like totally.
James: Yeah, totally. So it’s just like it can really get people down. I think you really need to truly seek out to understand the country and understand yourself and what you’re looking for. And that can be a little hard because if I was looking at moving to France, like I don’t know that houses are sold on Facebook marketplace and all the variations of that. Other side’s too.
So take your time, understand yourself, understand what your move is, understand where that fits in Spain. Learn from, from. Experts don’t take legal advice from people on Facebook. Take expert legal advice from lawyers, about immigration or tax, whatever, and then learn from the experiences of other good people who have gone before you or are doing it with you. And I think if you can like hold these different things together and block out.
The BS and the headlines and the fact that the fact is there’s a lot of people moving to Spain. And so there’s gonna be, media about it because there’s money to be made And so just block it out. If anything’s over simplistic or it seems more extreme, it’s just not a real realistic, it’s not helpful. It’s not gonna help you understand how you can actually do this move effectively and successfully.
Carlie: James, when you met your now wife In France all those years ago and followed her, I assume, to Spain. Is there anything looking back now that you would’ve done differently? Yeah, in those first years.
James: 100%. The biggest regret that I see that people make when they move to Spain, or the biggest tip that people who have made the move who say to people who haven’t made the move is start learning Spanish now and now could be five years before you move. It could be five months before you move. Now is now, and I moved with a Spaniard. So I was oh, osmosis, I’ll just learn Spanish. I’m good at languages. I learned French.
I can and my, it was only after being here and I got my Spanish to a really good level, but it took, it was a lot harder and it took a lot longer than it should have. And it’s only after about 12 years here that I actually got a Spanish tutor. ’cause I found damn, there’s these little things that I’m just still not getting right. And, and I just wasn’t nailing and it was affecting my confidence.
The hardest thing to do in advance of your move is start learning Spanish because there’s visas, there’s health insurance, there’s taxes to think about. But if you can find the time, if you can build a rhythm around learning Spanish and Duolingo is not learning Spanish, it does not cut it. There is one difference between say, working with a tutor who can see. Where you’re at, what your level is, what your goal is.
You’re not learning, you don’t wanna learn business Spanish or tourism. You don’t wanna live in Spain and can build a study plan or there could be a good course that has a good study plan for someone who wants to move to Spain, then yeah, sure. Use Duolingo like as practice. Right. But it’s not, it’s not a study plan. And so try and just. Put the energy into Spanish, some energy, and it will start to snowball.
It will be hard there’ll be days where you just feel like an idiot. I mean this like French And so, but you get there, you get somewhere and it’s, you never, no, actually you never get anywhere. We’ll always be learning and that’s okay. It’s a.
Carlie: That was a really important mind shift for me. And just this week I was in a cafe and I ordered a, brie baguette and they gave me chicken. And I don’t know why that happens. I thought I was past that point where I would order brie and I’d get chicken, but I’m still there some days. And that’s, this is how it goes.
James: That’s how it goes. Right. But there’s something really exciting about. The fact that I camp out with the idea that I’m, it’s like brain exercise that, I don’t know, there’s probably data there that people who learn a second language, like live longer or I hope so. Yeah, exactly. So let’s go
Carlie: With that. Yeah.
James: I think I’ve heard stuff like that. There’s probably competing data that says the opposite, but I’ve
Carlie: Heard that it helps protect your brain against dementia too. Yeah.
James: That’s what I’ve heard. That’s what I’ve heard. So gosh, there we go.? So go with that. I like that. That is a big one for people and I understand it’s hard, but I wish I had, gone into like an intensive language course and done that really early on and not just thought I’ll pick it up ’cause I’m in Spain. No you won’t.
Maybe if you spoke a really a language that wasn’t commonly spoken, you had no other way to communicate, but you can always speak English with, you can always find an English speaker and you will. You’ll go we go for the path of least resistance, so you gotta work on that one. Gotta be very intentional.
Carlie: Where can people find you if they do want to lean into more of your knowledge and resources for their Spain move?
James: Yeah. Great. I mean, if somebody would like to learn a little bit about what it takes to move to Spain, I have a free move to Spain self-assessment that you can download. It’s at spainrevealed.com/ready. And effectively that’s, a checklist you can go through. See how realistic Spain is in your future and what you might need to take care of to make a move to Spain.
Possible covering things like immigration, healthcare, location. It doesn’t take long to fill out take about 10 minutes and it gives you a clarity score reading on where you’re at. And sometimes people find that they’re actually closer than they think if they’ve been thinking about Spain a little bit. But it’ll also give you a structure to think about. How to make a move. So that’s self-assessment. Check that one out. Hmm. From there, you’ll start to find me in different places.
Carlie: James, I’ve really enjoyed this chat. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
James: Awesome. Thanks, Carlie. I’ve enjoyed it.
Carlie: I hope you enjoyed that episode. You can let me know what you would like to hear more of on the podcast by leaving a comment on our YouTube channel. Just search for Expat Focus. Don’t forget to roll back through our archives where you can find more conversations about different elements of life in Spain. Check out the country guides on Expat Focus, and while you are there, sign up to our monthly newsletter, and I will catch you in the next one.