The following transcript was generated by AI and may contain inaccuracies.
Carlie: Hey there, it’s Carlie back with another episode of the Expat Focus podcast.
How do you move abroad if you don’t have a job offer on the table? You’re too old for a working holiday visa. You don’t have the cash to invest in a country and there is no cute local on the scene for a quick wedding. Well, there are student visas, and founder of the Global Citizen Hub, Travis Drews, is here to explain how they might be the answer.
Travis, thank you so much for coming on the Expat Focus podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you on the show.
Travis: Yeah, thanks. I’m so happy to be here.
Carlie: Now you are an American in Germany, Berlin, in fact. So I’d love to start with hearing a bit about what led you abroad.
Travis: Yeah, it’s a long story. So I had started traveling a lot in 2018. I went on a backpacking trip in Southeast Asia and it was very fun and it opened my eyes up to this world of being a digital nomad and traveling and backpacking. And so I spent a lot of time just traveling around for years.
And then towards the last couple years, I knew I wanted to settle a little bit more. I’m definitely still all over the place, but I wanted to find somewhere in Europe for me to have more of a base. Berlin kept calling me. A lot of it comes from, I’ve worked as a musician and a DJ for the past 13 years, and it’s a huge DJ hub of course, and a huge creative city.
Yeah. It’s a place with a lot of things going on. It’s a world class city, and I knew I wanted something like that. And so about a year ago, I got settled in Berlin and I really enjoy it. It’s so much to explore. I know people, Berliners who have lived there their whole lives who are still exploring the city, so I really enjoy it and it’s pretty awesome.
Carlie: I was in Berlin for about a week, 12 years ago, and it’s still one of the highlights of my Europe trips from my twenties. I think it was a heat wave at the time. I went swimming in the shipping container in the river and went to eat Mexican food in some railway carriage cars and I don’t know, it was just such a cool experience that I met some great people I’m still in touch with today and I sadly haven’t been back since, but I really should.
Travis: Awesome. That sounds like a quintessential Berlin week.
Carlie: Right? That’s awesome. And I got this amazing vintage dress that I’ve never worn. I really should pull that out sometime.
Travis: Yeah. Bust it out once or twice.
Carlie: I wanna know what led you to start the Global Citizen Hub.
Travis: That’s a good question. I started the Global Citizen Hub back in April of 2025. It came to me in a big hit over the head with the idea because I’ll give you a bit of backstory. I have a lot of family all over the US. I come from a big family on both my mom and my dad’s side. My dad’s side lives in Wisconsin, in a small town, and it is perfect. I love my family.
I love visiting my family in this small town. It’s Leave it to Beaver, That ’70s Show. Nobody locks their doors. Everybody knows each other. It’s awesome. But the reason I say this is ’cause I have so many family members that have lived in this same town for their whole life and their parents’ whole life and their parents’ whole life.
And I had a cousin from that side of my family message me and say, “Hey, I’m concerned about, I want to consider options outside of living in the United States. Can you help me with that?” And I was just a person who had moved abroad and was international. I wasn’t having a business helping people or anything, but I came to realize that if my cousin who has a bunch of kids under the age of 10 and has lived in this small town their whole life is considering these options, that’s a very powerful movement, right?
And so I found myself in a position where I’m thinking, okay, a lot of people are looking for options for migration and I can help people with that ’cause I have experience. So I started and at first I was focusing on Americans, giving Americans options for moving abroad because I’m American and I understand it, but it quickly grew beyond even America.
And so I came to offer anyone who’s looking to move to Europe. I’ll help you whether you don’t know exactly what you want and you know you want to be in Europe and are considering different options or if you even know if you have a specific visa in mind, all of those. I can help you through all of this process. So it’s been a ride and it’s been fun and I’m so happy and excited about it.
Carlie: Now one of those specific visas that people can use are student visas. Can you explain to me why they’re a bit of a hack for moving abroad?
Travis: Yeah, that’s a good question. So student visas is one of my favorite ways for people to get started with moving to a different country. One of the reasons is because it can be very accessible where it’s with other visas, you’re required to show that you can support yourself and pay taxes in that country. You know, so it would require you either getting a job in that country or starting your own business, which are both huge.
Carlie: Or marry someone from that country or—
Travis: Exactly. All of these things are huge, big life changes. One thing that a student visa does is all you have to do is get accepted at a school in that country and then you can go to school there. Right?
There is, you do have to have some nuance though, because not every country’s student visa starts you on a pathway towards permanent residency citizenship, or even staying there long term.
Carlie: Okay.
Travis: But student visas do usually just set you up. Higher education sets you up for a job or a situation, which can then lead to being there longer term. So it’s a good way to get your foot in the door, be there, start learning the language. All of these things are really crucial to building up something longer term, and you just have to be very aware of what you can and can’t do on your student visa.
And if you actually want to move there for a longer time than just going to school, then you should know your plan from day one and start making your permanent residency case from day one.
Carlie: Are student visas only really an option though if you are, say in your twenties and looking at higher education? If you are in your thirties with an established career and you’re looking for a pathway, is it really gonna be a good fit for you? Is there a pathway there for a mature age person willing to go back to study, to move abroad?
Travis: This is a great question and this is something I didn’t realize until I started the business and I started really looking into these more. I was surprised that one of the biggest objections I would get—okay, so I sell a database of European scholarships where you can go find different scholarships and university programs. And one of the biggest objections I would get would be, “Oh, this isn’t for me because I’m too old.”
And in terms of going to university, almost no university programs don’t have an age limit. For example, a master’s or a doctorate don’t have an age limit for older people. Sometimes you’ll find scholarship programs that do have an age limit. And I think the understanding behind this is they want to give money to people who are younger because they’ve had less time to get established and build up a career or whatever.
So yes, it’s true that a lot of scholarship programs have an age limit, and I would usually put that age limit around mid thirties. But on the other side, most university programs don’t have an age limit. So and on top of that, a lot of university programs in Europe are much more affordable than a lot of people would think.
So I would challenge anyone who thinks that they’re too old to explore your options a little bit more and have an open mind about different pathways you can take if you’re interested in a student visa. I just hate to see people disqualify themselves immediately when there could definitely be viable options for them. So I would say just look into it a little bit.
Carlie: Now, I’ve been lurking on expat internet forums for a good decade. Not to be creepy or anything. But I see the struggle of people on student visas not being able to work legitimately and scrounging around for off the books jobs to support themselves while they’re abroad. Is that an issue? If you’re a mature age student, if you’re moving abroad on a student visa, you still need to earn money somehow. Are there student visas that allow you to work?
Travis: Yeah, it just depends on the country. I don’t have the specific countries where you can and can’t work off the top of my head. I believe France allows you to work up to 20 hours per week. But almost even if you can work, usually it’s something like that where it has to be part-time because I think the government wants you to focus on your studies.
But you’re right, that is a huge issue. If you can’t have any income, then that’s a huge barrier to entry. The point of attracting international talent is so that you can have smart, well-rounded people come to your country and if they already have to have the entire two years worth of savings built up, then that’s a huge barrier to entry. So yeah, that’s definitely a real thing.
If that is an issue for you, right? If you don’t have the funds to have the savings to be able to support yourself the entire time, I would say choose a country where you can work, right?
Carlie: Oh, don’t choose a student visa.
Travis: Yeah, exactly.
Carlie: I guess, Travis, you gotta love studying, right? Because that’s the first turnoff for me. I would never have chosen a student visa to move abroad because I was one of those people that just couldn’t wait to start working. I couldn’t wait to leave university and just start applying what I was learning in a job.
I know in Australia there’s been a few scandals over the years of education institutions that are kind of a front just to get people visas and then they don’t have to show up to many study hours and they just spend their time on that visa working more than they are studying legitimately.
Travis: Mm-hmm.
Carlie: Is that sort of thing more regulated in Europe?
Travis: So I haven’t heard of that scandal in Australia. I’m super interested in it now. I’m definitely gonna look into it.
Carlie: They’ve probably cleaned it up since I was reading about it a couple of years ago, but who knows?
Travis: Sure. Well, my understanding is that Australia is very strict about immigration and so I can see where there would be scams or scandals set up to where people could move there more easily in Europe. I haven’t heard of anything like that. My experience has been that Europe has a lot of very reputable education and also in general. And it’s hard to speak of Europe in general.
Carlie: We keep saying Europe, but obviously there’s many countries to this continent.
Travis: Yes. Yeah. But in general, look, I’ll speak to Germany then. The German government, the philosophy on education is one reason why I really love Europe in general, and Germany in general. They believe that if the society overall is educated, it makes for a better society and it makes for people who are more democratically minded, and who understand the world and who can build businesses and build the economy.
And so Germany offers free education or education with free tuition in most of its public universities because they understand that having people in the country who are educated is best for everyone. And so I really love that about it, and I love that philosophy in general.
And you asked me if there’s a scandal. I haven’t heard of any, but it would surprise me more in a country where education, higher education is not a ticket into a job as much as it is more about making a better person and a better society. I would be surprised if they, you know, would allow, especially Germany being a place of rules and regulations, allow things like that to go on.
Carlie: You know, the myth was busted for me on German efficiency. The whole reputation for efficiency. The other day when I was catching a train from Frankfurt back to where I live in Alsace, and delays. Delays upon delays. And I thought, wow, it’s not true.
Travis: Yeah. As an expat, you will for sure be introduced to bureaucracy. To me, it’s frustrating that a lot of stuff is still on paper. There’s, I just am, there’s no reason why we have to do this. But Germans still care a lot about the rules and I think that’s what makes the bureaucracy so difficult is that it’s still handled on paper. There’s a lot of rules.
You have to follow all the rules, and there’s no wiggle room really. So yeah, I totally agree.
Carlie: You spoke about a database of scholarships. Does that mean that there are scholarships available for foreigners wanting to study in European countries?
Travis: Yeah.
Carlie: This blows my tiny mind. Because I feel like in Australia, that’s the sort of thing reserved for residents, Australian residents and citizens.
Travis: Yeah. So I’m not an expert on Australia immigration, but my friends who have gone and lived there have told me about how it’s very much there’s a difference between someone who’s coming for a few years and someone who’s staying permanently. Right?
Europe, I think has used their, because there is lots of good education, really higher education institutes that are world renowned and respected, like Oxford, in Europe. And I think they’ve used that as a resource to attract foreign talent. Right?
Also, a lot of countries in Europe are going through a crisis where their populations are aging. And there are programs and incentives that incentivize you to go to, move to places in the country where the population is declining. So I think that a lot of these countries use that as a resource to attract younger people and to attract younger talent.
Therefore, there are tons of programs that are meant to help you make that transition, especially considering that countries, these countries have a more well-rounded philosophy on education. Right?
So for example, Erasmus is one that a lot of people use that can give you financial support to move to different countries, specifically in Europe. And DAAD is a scholarship that people can look into that’s specifically for Germany. And I was able to compile a database of 500 of these opportunities.
And especially when you stick that up against the, if you sell that to an American who is either making the choice of the average American takes out $38,000 of student loans that they have to pay off, you know, and a lot of them carry that with them for decades. Or you could go to a government funded university in Germany where you as a foreigner have free tuition.
Carlie: This was what I was going to ask next, Travis, because again, my reference is Australia because that’s where I studied. But we charge our international students in Australia full fees. Is that not the case for foreigners studying in Europe?
Travis: It again, it’s generalizing. I’m sorry, I keep saying Europe, right?
Carlie: European countries.
Travis: Yeah. Yeah. Each university is different, right? So each university charges differently. There are a lot of universities in Europe that have free tuition because of the philosophical ideas I was saying before. Usually you have to pay around 300 euro for administrative fees because they still have to do your paperwork and all that, but there are plenty of opportunities. I would say there’s a lot more opportunities than people know to get university with free tuition in Europe.
Besides that, there are a lot of universities that have super high tuition. There’s also the very respected big old universities that have very high tuition. And there’s also universities that are more middle of the road that will charge 5,000, 10,000 euro tuition.
If you compare it to the United States, and I’m not sure comparing it to Australia, these middle of the road universities are going to be much, much more affordable than the middle of the road universities, say in the United States. So even if you’re going to not take advantage of a university that has free tuition and you’re paying regular foreigner tuition, a lot of times it’s gonna be cheaper than your at home option.
Carlie: Earlier you spoke about a relative with a family that’s looking at their options for moving abroad. If you’re in that situation and looking at studying as a path, as a pathway to get there, does that also connect to a pathway to permanent residency and citizenship, or can you expect to only be able to stay in the country for as long as your student visa is valid?
Travis: That’s a great question. Let’s get into it. So different countries are different about their residency rules, right? So for example, in France, if you’re there on a student visa that is not starting the clock ticking towards permanent residency and citizenship, which is usually five years, right? So say you’re in a country where your student visa isn’t building towards permanent residency or citizenship.
That’s not saying that you can’t transition into a work visa or a passive income visa or a digital nomad visa that helps build towards permanent residency and citizenship. It’s just saying that that time there isn’t starting the clock yet.
What you will be doing that is helping you towards permanent residency and citizenship is learning the language, getting used to dealing with the bureaucracy and understanding how the government works. Learning the culture and getting to know people. A big thing that almost all countries look into when you’re applying for citizenship is called assimilation.
And they’re basically looking to see if you have friends, are part of the community or in clubs. So these are all things that you can be building towards, even if your visa is not technically counting that timer towards citizenship and permanent residency.
So I would say if you’re in that situation you asked about, if you go and study abroad or study somewhere, you’re gonna be, even though if you’re in a country that’s not building towards citizenship on a student visa, you’re gonna be so much farther towards assimilation and towards understanding that country by doing that than if you would’ve just not taken that route and you would’ve waited more time to be able to get to the place where you can go move there later. Right? So that’s something to think about. It’s not necessarily always starting the clock, but you are building up time.
Carlie: I guess that’s why you describe student visas as a stepping stone rather than say a pathway because it’s moving in the right direction, but maybe you still need to get on that dry land path before you—
Travis: And another thing is I have a master of business administration. I did a master’s and the majority of the value that I got out of my master’s was networking with other people and getting to know other people. It’s yeah, I studied and I learned a lot of stuff and it was very challenging academically, but it was certainly geared towards networking and setting you up to where you can get a job, and that is certainly true for a lot of programs in Europe.
They still, a lot of programs still see the point of that program in order to set you up for a career or a job, which can be super valuable if you don’t have any leads and you want to move to a place. Right.
Carlie: Yeah, for sure. It’s amazing the network. I only did a couple of years of university. I definitely didn’t get to master level. But it’s amazing the network you keep with you throughout your working life and those connections that come in handy and that become relevant when you’re looking for specific support as well.
Travis: Right.
Carlie: So how do you go about finding that perfect fit study program in the perfect fit European country, if that’s where you’re starting?
Travis: That is a good question. So for me, there’s you just have to sit and think about what you want. For me, I identify a few factors. A huge one of course is what do you wanna study? You might be looking at studying something that is just beneficial to you in your life and you wanted to learn about it ’cause you’re interested in it.
I can see myself going back ’cause I love to learn. I love it. I would do academia my whole life, you know.
Carlie: Who are you? I don’t understand you people.
Travis: Right. So I could see myself in the next five or 10 years going back and learning a cultural studies degree or something. Especially because I have this business now that is very much involved in culture and I love history and music. So—
Carlie: Sounds—
Travis: Something like that.
Carlie: Yeah.
Travis: That wouldn’t contribute to my career, but maybe it would adjacently. It’s certainly not a degree I need to get in order to continue my current business. Right? So just consider what you wanna study. This will have a huge impact on number one, how long you’re there, right. How long you’re involved, and then am I positioning myself to then have a career after or is this more just for the good of my health and my brain. Right?
The second would be language. Not every university program in Europe is taught in English and in fact a lot of them aren’t. So understand, that’s really crucial. Make sure, are you gonna be able to understand your teachers? ‘Cause it takes a year or two to be able to get around in a language, you know?
So definitely make sure that if you don’t know the local language, it’s taught in English or you’re—
Carlie: That could be a quite a grave error if you miss that part of the application.
Travis: Yeah, you would certainly be in trial by fire. Yeah. I would say a third factor would be which city or country that the program is located in. So for me personally in my life, I really want to choose the city I’m in because I chose to be there. It’s the vibe of a city and the energy of a city, I draw a lot from it.
So choosing the city is a big factor for me. I’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t care and they would just go to a specific town because it’s a good university town. But that’s another factor to consider, which city, which country that you would be living in. Right?
And then the last factor I was gonna talk about was how long does the program last? I talked about that a little bit before, but you can have masters that are completed within one year. You can have masters that go up to four years. Right? Say for example, you are moving, you are angling to live in a country long term and you’re going to a country where your student visa doesn’t count towards permanent residency or citizenship, and you’re there for four years.
Carlie: That’s a long time. Maybe four years is a long time to be doing that course.
Travis: Yeah.
Carlie: Without credits.
Travis: Yeah, exactly. So these are what I would consider when going to a place. Right? And I would rank them in order of importance too. What do you wanna study? That’s huge. Right?
Carlie: Travis, where can people find you if they wanna learn more about what you can help them with?
Travis: Yeah, of course. So my business is called the Global Citizen Hub, and it is a collection of guides, in-depth visa courses and community. So for example, if you don’t know exactly what you want or which country or which visa option is right for you, I have guides that explore lots of different options.
And I also have in-depth courses. Once you decide which visa you want, where I help you fill out the exact forms and go through the government portal and organize your documents so that you can hand them in. We provide document checklists and timelines and all the resources I wish that I had had when I was, you know, starting to move abroad.
It’s we are all going through this process, but everyone does it separately and it’s such a hard process. We shouldn’t have to do it all separately, right? So it’s called the Global Citizen Hub. You can find me at www.theglobalcitizenhub.com. I’m also very active on Instagram at the Global Citizen Hub.
So if you are considering moving abroad pretty much at any part of your journey, whether you’re actively applying for a specific visa or considering different options, I have something for you and I can help. So that’s how you can get in contact.
Carlie: This has been a really interesting conversation, Travis. Thanks so much for coming on the show to talk about using student visas as a stepping stone to moving abroad.
Travis: Yeah, of course. It’s been so great to talk to you and to talk about all these different options, you know. It’s a wide continent and there are different options and depending on what you want, you might go about things in a different way. So it’s important to be educated and informed when you’re starting the process and do everything intentionally.
Carlie: That’s it for today. Have you moved to another country on a student visa and turned it into a long-term stay? Maybe you’re now even a citizen of that country. We’d love to hear your story. Leave a comment on this episode on our YouTube channel. Just search for Expat Focus. Get move abroad insights in your inbox every month by signing up to our newsletter. That’s at expatfocus.com/newsletter, and I will catch you in the next one.